Mastery of the Conquest System is an involved process, requiring dedication and teamwork. A progressive system for capturing ports is employed. The method for 'flipping' ports (placing them in contention) consists of accumulating 'unrest' points by defeating enemy NPC or Players within a 50-mile radius of the port. Additional Unrest can be created by covertly arming the local citizenry who wish to revolt against the current government, through Small arms turn-ins. Once Unrest reaches the 5,000-point level, turn-ins are no longer effective and further gains are only possible via enemy kills within the 50-mile radius. When Unrest hits the 10,000 mark, the contested port goes into full PvP mode and is scheduled for a Port Battle. Once scheduled, the contending nations can generate additional points by sinking enemy ships in the area, in order to gain a geographical advantage in the ensuing Port Battle.
The final victor in a Port Battle 'captures' (wins control of) that port. Each controlled port is worth ten points to the winning nation, while any port lost to an opposing faction subtracts ten points from the losing side's score. A nation must accumulate a minimum of 300 points to Win the Map, through capturing and controlling opposing nation's ports - while losing as few as possible of their own.
Within seven weeks of the game's pre-boarding launch date (January 7th), 'The Alliance' of Spain had realized that goal, after a lengthy, coordinated campaign. Recently, representatives from several of the societies that were engaged in the historic endeavor gathered to recount their experiences - and to tell a bit about some of those whom spearheaded The Win...
As we begin, please introduce yourselves with a brief description of your respective societies:
[SGCO] Jaruuk: SG started in WW2 Online. We've been around for 7 years. Since then we have been in Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, WoW, LotRO, many FPS titles, EVE, PotBS and beta testing several to-be-released titles.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: I am the Sturmgrenadier PotBS Operations officer as well as the Liason Officer to the Alliance. I have been with SG for 3 years.
Dor: (what does 'SG' stand for?)
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Sturmgrenadier, German for "Storm Troopers"
[SGCO] Jaruuk: Nothing behind the name except the founders thought it sounded cool. ;) Most of the command staff has a military background. We run things in a military fashion with the Portal CO's being a sort of democratic dictator. SG is made up of all sorts of gamers, from hardcore to casual.
[SGCO] Jaruuk: I've been with SG for 7 years and started many of the portals. SG charges an annual fee of $12 ($1/month). This ensures a commitment and pays for our dedicated server that hosts FPS tournaments and our massive Teamspeak infrastructure. We also have Xmas giveaways. :) Average SG age is about 32. That's all from me. :D
[BDM] TR Baron: Hi I'm 'TR Baron', one of the founding members of BDM - Bastados Del Mar, Spanish for 'Bastards of the Sea'. We started out as a group of players from a much 'older' group of players from another game (ANZACs from WWIIOL). We're mostly from Australia and New zealand but now also have a fair few from places all over the world. By 'older' I'm not talking about age of players but age of the 'group' ;)
[BDM] TR Baron: BDM's membership isn't as large as SG and OTG. We only have around 50 active members, but we try and be as effective as we can with what we have. We have an average age that would be similar to SG there, too.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Old Timers Guild (OTG) is a very large guild with about 5000 members registered and hundreds active at all times. We started when DDO came out and formed up mostly as a place for many old timer D&Ders seeking to find like-minded souls and avoid gaming with kids and less mature players. It was of course an instant success and now we are huge and have chapters for about every MMO that has come out since. I am Gavin Casteel, and Rafael De Vega and I are the Fleet Commanders of OTG, which means we are the ones in charge of the PVP side of our chapter's involvement in POTBS. Cresley Rumgut is our chapter leader in POTBS. OTG POTBS membership is around 200, and we have between 50-60 online during our peak times usually.
{ULA} Tyrien: Well, it seems like I got voted to introduce the 'United Legion of the Armada'. We are a relatively small society, but we are just the Pirates of the Burning Sea off-shoot from a larger clan playing other games. The original clan is roughly five years old and our players are all eighteen plus.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: OTG average age is in the 30s also. Our relative ages may be a huge factor in why our alliance has worked so well.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: And it HAS worked well :)
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: OTG has a Minimum age of 25 membership requirement in fact :)
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: We are a collection of crusty old bastards lol
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Aye
{ULA} Drago: lol, same
[RED} Sabroso: I'm Juan Sabroso, a regular grunt of Redemption. I'm just here to soak up info.
[RED} Granato: Redemption was born in Shadowbane beta. Before PotBS came out, most of us were playing WoW - though we have a few members in other endeavors. I'd say we have about 40-50 people in PotBS - some of whom are new to Redemption with this game.
[RED} Sabroso: I'm one of the new guys.
[RED} Granato: So, we're one of the smaller pieces of the alliance in numbers but we try to pull our own weight. I'm one of the Senators of Redemption. We don't have any dues. We are lead by a Senate of about 6 people - a few members are promoted to be Senate advisors. We accept new people (usually over 18 yrs of age), but they have to go through seekership to become members. I'd estimate that about 1/3 of our membership is currently playing PotBS with some regularity with us atm.
What brought you all together initially? How was the decision to ally formed?
[RED} Granato: I got an email from someone in OTG first, asking what server we were planning to play on. We had decided we wanted to play Spanish, but hadn't chosen a server yet, so this was the beginning of alliance for Redemption.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Me.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Btw El Tiborun is one of the leaders of LAP and LAP has been a presence in our Alliance since the start. Since they do not have a rep here right now I just wanted to mention them.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: We kind of collectively started seeking out each other during pre-release to see who all was going to play Spanish on Antigua. A lot of the early intros came from the PotBS forums and PM's.
[RED} Granato: Yeah, a few emails back and forth between, at least OTG, Sturm and Redemption, at least in beginning.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: The 2 week downtime between beta and prelaunch was when we more or less "found" each other and started forming the alliance.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: For us the process of finding guilds we were interested in sharing a server with, started in Open Beta. I know Rafael put in a good bit of effort seeking to get to know some other societies and researching their websites and histories to find some likely fits. There was luck involved in our finding each other, but also some hard work and research.
[BDM] TR Baron: Kudos to SG for running the alliance forum and TS server too.
{ULA} Tyrien: Aye, it aided a great deal in the area of communication.
[RED} Granato: Agreed, SG had the infrastructure that helped overcome the obstacle of not knowing each other and how to coordinate.
What did you find the greatest hurdle to be, when trying to coordinate several, disparate groups towards a common goal?
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: SG deserves tremendous credit for helping us overcome those hurdles with ease.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Making sure, early on, that every one understood that even though we were hosting the comms and forums, that it was an "Alliance Show", not an SG Show.
[RED} Granato: We were happy to find like-minded people - more mature gamers who knew what it takes to do well in a game.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Once we had the forums and comms server we got to know each other and everyone has shown great respect for each other which has kept us going through thick and thin.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: We have always made sure that no one tried to chest pound and take credit for any or all successes.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Nor take all the blame either. :)
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: All defeats are Gavin's fault, however.
[RED} Granato: lol
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Aye the maturity shown by everyone in the alliance is overwhelming. We all work as a team.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Et Tu Jaruuk?
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: The Friday Night before release we held the first "Command Conference" on TS to meet/greet and set goals.
[RED} Granato: We already had common goals and philosphies and such. The biggest thing that worked in our favor other than that was how well we communicated and worked toward our common goals.
What was/is most enjoyable about working together?
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Spirit of teamwork.
{ULA} Tyrien: Singing Karaoke in San Juan on Friday nights =)
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Everyone set thier egos aside and just worked as a team. SG has the better organization .. OTG had the raw numbers but we let everyone be part of it and make decisons from the start.
[RED} Sabroso: Seeing very visible results of the teamwork too.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Trust, we watch each others' back a lot.
[RED} Granato: Yeah, teamwork - no big heads (at ones that got in way of common goals) in the mix.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Several times we have thrown together groups from 3 or 4 societies to accomplish a goal.
[BDM] TR Baron: I like that even though Spain isn't the most populous nation on the server, we can be effective because of the alliance.
[RED} Granato: Yeah, even though we were the little group, they made us feel equal, too. Redemption learned alot about ship combat (teamwork) from SG.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Just knowing that the guys working with you all want the same things and will work as hard as you, and with you, to achieve them. We all share what we know and learn with each other and support each other when it's needed.
Would you recommend the same strategy for other servers, or do you feel that your situation on Antigua was unique?
[BDM] TR Baron: Well, teamwork always beats no teamwork.
[RED} Granato: I think that our strategy is pretty universal.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: We figured that everyone was doing the same thing.
{ULA} Drago: Same thoughts here.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: I cannot possibly see why a group of people in the same nation would not want to cooperate to achieve the designed goals of the game they are playing. It is fun and rewarding and greatly adds to one's enjoyment.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: heh, they at least have a NAME :)
{ULA} Drago: Teamwork and communication are helpful in any game.
[RED} Granato: Crucial in some.
{ULA} Tyrien: I would agree it is universal, but I would point out it's all about how the guilds come together. It might be a little harder in some cases because they might lack the infastructure SG provided for us.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Our lack of a name and the fact our identity is simply referred to as "the alliance" I think is rather telling, in and of itself.
[RED} Granato: In the case of some of our opponents, I think maturity (not just chronological age) had a bit to do with it, too. What's that saying about old age (cunning and guile) winning over youthful exuberance?
[BDM] TR Baron: I'd also recommend keeping red zones around St. Johns ... ;)
{ULA} Drago: I agree with Gavin.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: lol
Which was your toughest battle?
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: *hmms* We may have to discuss that one a bit...obviously a loss would constitute our toughest.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Well we lost our first 3 attacks :) Those were tough...
{ULA} Drago: Yes.
[RED} Granato: Yeah, but they helped to cement our teamwork I think. Added to our resolve.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Actually, after a brief discussion on our voice comms, we have a winner :)
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: I managed to lead a 3-24 loss at TB; that was kinda Harsh :D
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Fortunately, it was also the shortest :)
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: But the coolest part of it was that it was a devastingly one-sided loss in which we just sucked it up...learned from our mistakes and got right back to work. No in-fighting, no backtalk, no blame tossing.
[RED} Granato: Aye.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Many alliances would have packed it in after a loss like that. We had won some defenses battles so to lose 3 to 24 ... felt very bad.
{ULA} Drago: True.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: I yelled at him on the phone after that one lol
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: And we even let Marc lead another battle again!
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Very true...and in all seriousness, the fact that these guys even gave me another chance to lead (later) says a lot about them, and built a lot of loyalty.
[BDM] TR Baron: It wasn't our only loss like that; the first Battle BDM led ended much the same. Stay away from the channels on the Havana map!
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Not really.... Marc beat himself up pretty bad after that. Havana was tough until we figured it out.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Aye, but we propped him up and got him out there and his track record is WAY bigger in the win column now :)
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Havana is the name of a Port battle map. There are several of them and they all have names...
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Gavin is FC too btw, focus on him.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: [censored]!!
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: LOL
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: No no, shoot at Marc not at Gavin :)
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Everyone is concerned that naming our leaders will get them targeted in Port Battles. But I think our enemies know who we are by now.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: It does, we do it to them...besides, Gavin's record is better than mine ;)
[BDM] TR Baron: Learning battle strategies is the toughest battle in and of itself, I think.
How many ships do you estimate that you burned through on the endeavor? :-)
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Ours or theirs?
[RED} Granato: Way more of theirs.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: 5:1?
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: I can barely tell you how many Port battles we fought :) let alone the ships we sunk :)
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: We are way ahead in SOL's just because they can field more.
[RED} Sabroso: I know I got sunk in nearly every port battle...
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: That's a Port Battle number.
{ULA} Drago: Let's just say a lot of ships.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: I daresay our open sea sink record blows away our Port Battle sinkages record by a large margin.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Ratios in the port battles were close ... maybe 2 to 1, but Open Sea 5 to 1 easy.
[BDM] TR Baron: Also quite a few port battles ended up being "avcom" which means that not all of the ships that showed up got sunk on the losing side.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Ok, Raf is correct. True, Baron.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: A key to our success in this was our ability to control the open sea. I will not go into details about how...but we always controlled the red zones and we won most of our 6 vs 6 open sea battles.
What do you think of the gameplay mechanics involved in a Map Victory? Would you like to see them altered in the future? If so, how?
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Thank GOD Borsig's not here :) There is some tweaking that needs to be done.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Well, we hated the econ bombings and we did NOT use econ beyond 5000 points.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Well I will be happy when FLS figures out their final version of the contention system and is not changing it nightly :)
[BDM] TR Baron: I'd like changes to the way 'unrest' in generated. I'm not a huge fan of "grinding" on NPCs to raise the unrest. I'd like to see a "blockade" ability added to PvP flags so just having your PvP flag on within 10 miles of port would get the unrest trickling in.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Better spawns; the unrest generated for player kill is still low (was too high).
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: We all agree that many changes are still needed. We also all feel that as long as PvP is the biggest factor in "unrest" then we will do well.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: We realize that FLS is working on it, and we just have to be patient.
{ULA} Drago: I agree that contention with player kills needs to be looked at.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: If they make the game all about fighting NPC's then we will get bored, as it should be all about PvP.
[BDM] TR Baron: Some things have already changed since the first map win. For example, contention no longer 'decays' automatically and can only be dropped by other players.
[RED} Granato: Yeah, the versus NPCs is not the strong side of this game. I think they still need to tweak that new 'no decay' system too. I think that it should decay, just at a slow rate.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: I'm glad I'm not a designer. I only want to kill other players and make it count. :)
{ULA} Tyrien: I agree with Granato here - the decay should be looked into.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: I agree that decay should still be in the game. Decay is not the problem.
[RED} Sabroso: Personally I'd also like to see some incentives for Freetraders to sail cargo-laden vessels into the red zone, which would generate more PvP. Of course the reward would have to equal the risk.
[BDM] TR Baron: I'd also like more finacial reward from PvP, since currently you have to grind NPCs to bring enough cash into the economy to keep up PVPing.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Amen Baron
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: I agree with that also, Tr.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Very true, cash gets tight on heavy PVP ops weeks.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: As for Victory itself. I think the system is overall well designed. The fact that 3 nations can team up against 1 dominate nation should allow for some balance on a server, even when populations and such are a bit off. If they could work on those other details a bit I think it is a great framework overall. The rewards , other then for pride, are also rather insignifigant at present.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: It seems to be a pure PvP game but many outspoken players seem to want to bash away at NPCs all day and all night instead of at other players. It seems lame, and FLS is sadly listening.
[RED} Granato: I'd like to either see more variety in missions or more reward for each so you don't have to be mindlessly bored at running them. Agreed that overall, the victory system itself is well designed. It just needs tweaks here and there.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: They must figure out a way force PvP. The mission content is not a strongpoint nor was it designed to be.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Agreed.
[BDM] TR Baron: By 'force' he means 'encourage' :P
[RED} Granato: Encourage by force.
[SGHQ] Jaruu: lmao
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: The last point I will make is...that for a while, the best defense our enemies have had is to NOT show up and fight us. I think that they should not be rewarded or cause us to spend large amounts of extra time placing a port into unrest by NOT showing up - which is what happens now.
Dor: That has to be frustrating.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Extremely.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Aye, one thing this Alliance all agrees on...we enjoy the challenge this game presents. Port Battles are called "Landmark" by FLS...they should be EPIC and Landmark...not unpopulated because one side's seeking to avoid PVP.
[RED} Granato: And we enjoy working that challenge together.
[BDM] TR Baron: Privateers, freetraders and pirates could use some work to give them a proper place in port battles too, where they're as equally valuable as having another SOL, but in their own way.
{ULA} Tyrien: An excellent point Baron.
I guess we've already covered the question of: what changes do you think would make a Map Win better and more of a worthwhile goal?
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Yeah :)
{ULA} Drago: Yes
[BDM] TR Baron: Yep
[RED} Granato: We do it for pride and satisfaction - 'cause the other rewards (from FLS) aren't that great.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Again, keeping the focus on PvP and giving monetary rewards for wins both big and small... Such as conquering an individual port and for winning the whole map.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: I was kidding anyway.
{ULA} Drago: I agree there. They should add more rewards.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: I think that a set amount of Marks of Victory should be given to ALL who participate in Port Battles, instead of maybe getting a roll on a few that drop during the battle. Etc..
[RED} Granato: I think that they ought to announce Map Victories and celebrate them from their end too - should only help to publicize their game.
{ULA} Drago: Yup they should.
Considering that it took weeks to accomplish, are you eager to try for another Map Win now?
[BDM] TR Baron: Well we certainly aren't planning to lose ;)
[RED} Granato: We're already working on winning the next map.
{ULA} Drago: Yes we are.
[BDM] TR Baron: Plus you need 4-5 map wins for the best rewards from the citations of conquest ...so :P
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: I'll let Jaruuk answer that :)
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: lol. We were going to take some time off to help our low levels and get some out-of-game admin stuff inline. Then we heard that the first Map Win was apparently a "Practice Run" (quote from a Dev "Joe") and we decided it was time to reenter the fray. Our enemies were getting too pushy in our absence and we showed them we were still around last night.
[BDM] TR Baron: To be fair, Joe has apologised for his 'unfortunate' terminology ;)
{ULA} Tyrien: Jaruuk is correct, in this sense: it almost feels like we are being forced to prove our victory. We won't shy away but it makes this next one possibly most important in many areas even though it isn't the first win.
(from a player): How was the handicap system implemented? Less ports to start, or less starter points?
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: I think it was less points for us - or more for them.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: I think so, France finished last on the last map, even though by rights it should have been Britain. Britain lost way more port battles to us then anyone else, but since we were often conquering a British port that USED to be a French port, France came out lowest. Thereby they got the most bonus points to start this map cycle.
Included on a dare: If you could be a parrot for a day, whom would you poop on first?
[BDM] TR Baron: Whoever came up with the idea of segregated Australian servers ..
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: hehe
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: Ouch.. yeah I feel your pain Baron.
{ULA} Tyrien: After deep thought, I've decided on FLS Joe. *fears logging on and being on a desperation raft now T_T*
In closing, is there anything in particular that you would like to include?
[BDM] TR Baron: Well I can't think of anything other then reiterating that the alliance is in place for our "fun" first and 'winning' second. Obviously the 2 often coincide ;)
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: One sec, Gavin is working on something Profound.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: For us, I think the focus is and should be on what mature, motivated individuals can do when they bind together and show loyalty, patience, honesty, and humility to accomplish their common goals. In this day and age of this internet community with folks more intersted in their frag counts and such, it is truly rare and special and it has been a great experience for us all.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: sniff...beautiful
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Brings a tear to a glass eye...
[RED} Sabroso: At least he didn't use the terms paradigm or 'think outside the box'
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: lol
[RED} Granato: Careful, you'll soak the wooden leg.
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: *bows*
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: We OWN the box dammit :)
[RED} Granato: I think flexibility might fit in there somewhere, too.
[BDM] TR Baron: Speaking of which, I hope FLS is keeping a list of frag counts. They should make a stats webpage...
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: No crying in the red zone.
[OTG] Rafael De Vega: Yeah I like that, Jaruuk.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: Yes, working with these guys has been a fun and rewarding experience.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: *beats Baron with his own wooden leg*
[BDM] TR Baron: :P
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: Seriously, we had some losses at first and we all got together and talked about what happened. We didn't point or nag or gripe. We simply hunkered down and went back at em.
Wrapping it up:
[SGHQ] Jaruuk: I have never gotten along with other guilds as well or as easily as I have with these folks. It's been great so far with the promise to get even better.
[RED} Granato: I agree with Jaruuk - would even look for you guys in other games Redemption plays in the future, as either friends or enemies.
[SGHQ] Marc Cinco: AND we have Bumble Bee sails ;)
{ULA} Drago: The sails are great.
[OTG] Gavin Casteel: The bottomline to the signifigance of the Map Win for us is the pride in what we all accomplished working together. Which is a very good thing because FLS really didn't add any enjoyment to the experience and greatly added contraversy.
{ULA} Drago: We like the alliance, which was forged by friendship and is bound by comraderie. We all have had a great time.
A huge thank-you to all of you gentlemen for gathering together (from several time zones!) to tell us of your experiences. It was a pleasure meeting you - both as individuals and as members of Pirates of the Burning Sea's very first Map Victory team. Heartiest of congratulations on a job well-done!
~Guillian 'Dor' Marshall
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